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Wednesday, October 2, 2013

Electric Cars - Good or Bad for an economy? 2013-10-02

  • Nissan Leaf arriving in SA on 16th October. First deliveries in November. We don't know the price yet. Hoping it will be less than R200,000 because then it will be the same price as the Renault Clio 1.4 with a similar spec, but the Leaf will cost 1/3rd re "refuel".

    The reason I am posting this here is that we don't need to build more power stations to run electric cars, and we don't need Karoo gas to run them, and they can provide electricity at peak time, and more.
    Like ·  · Unfollow Post ·  · Yesterday at 10:50
    • Bronwyn Evans I saw revenge of the electric car recently. The Nissan CEO said on the doccie that the Leaf was going to be a lot less that other electric cars. Here's to hoping. I Germany they have solar power parking bays at malls to recharge your vehicle. How cool is that?!
    • David Lipschitz It makes sense to recharge at malls, which have Time of Use Tariffs. This means that if you park your car at 4pm, you can charge your car at say R1.00 per kWh and you can save money and the centre can make money. Let's say that the centre is paying peak rate at 6pm. They can buy your electricity at R1.30 per kWh and you can make money and they can save money. These prices change during the year, and in Europe they actually change per second.

      With electric cars you can set how much you are prepared to sell, eg 30% of your battery capacity, so that you can still get home, etc.
    • David Lipschitz Note that I have been advised that the car might be more expensive, but in the USA its about R200,000 because of tax benefits, eg the USA doesn't have to import oil that these cars would have used. Even if their government is on annual (unpaid) leave at the moment, they still have some good incentives.

      The USA also don't have to send troops to oil rich nations and protect supply routes, so they can afford to give this money back to the consumer. And they don't need additional power stations for supply fuel to these vehicles.

      And these cars are cheaper to maintain which means that our balance of payments will improve, our inflation will go down, our costs will go down and we will have more spending money and will feel better. The billions of Rands that leave our country annually to pay for expensive parts and oil will stay in South Africa and our and people and country will be a lot richer.
    • Arther Dent David sounds like your looking to distribute electric cars and you use money savings as a justification . The introduction of electric cars will increase the demand on fossil fuels globally . The nature of our monetary system is to blame for all environmental degradation . Is this on topic ?
      12 hours ago · Like · 1
    • Clive Dobson www.thevenusproject.com


      The Venus Project calls for a redesign of our culture in which war, poverty, hun...See more
    • Clive Dobson A solar powered car seating four with a new record range during testing in Australia for the World Solar Challenge - 860 km's ! Seats four adults and has a boot and is roadworthy in the Netherlands...https://www.facebook.com/SolarTeamEindhoven

      Het tonen dat een duurzame toekomst in transport mogelijk is door het winnen van...See more
      Page: 1,814 like this.
    • Clive Dobson http://www.solarteameindhoven.nl/en/news


      After several successful test days at the Cox Peninsula Road, the team and Stell...See more
    • Arther Dent Clive you have to look at a solar car from a holistic energy balance point of view , going all the way back to include the farmers that eat food and produce food for the people who build the solar cars . and of course all the people who do nothing in the physical world but live of investments due to the nature of money ?
    • David Lipschitz Arther, regarding your first point. I don't want to distribute these cars, just own them. And how exactly will they use more fossil fuels than is used by refineries in converting oil to petrol and motor oil and also by the mining operations and mines that supply the coal and oil to power these conversion processes and for the petrol/oil usage by the cars themselves?
    • Arther Dent Ok lets start here do you use more oil walking to the shop or driving to the shop ?
    • Stella Ann Rigby What about the man in Somerset West who makes fuel from recycled plastic? When he is running low, he sends his bakkie out to collect more plastic. Also shreds tyres to use for the same purpose. if I remember correctly, his website is fueltech, but not sure of the extension. He has also supplied middle east countries with desalination plants.
      4 hours ago · Like · 1
    • David Lipschitz Arther: I get it 

      Let's start here. If I drive my electric car to the shop, I don't use oil. I've learnt something very important after 6,000 hours and millions spent trying to get people to "walk". It doesn't work. The next best option is to be sli
      ghtly less idealistic and find a method to get people to the shops without being attacked or rained on and where they can easily carry their shopping home and which doesn't use oil. 
    • David Lipschitz Interesting, thanks Stella.http://www.fueltech.co.za/


      Fuel from Waste
    • Jonathan Deal great post David.


  1. Nissan Leaf , no subsidy in Australia, around $39K so probably more than R300K.
    I own an electric car ( Mitsubishi iMiEV) and have found it has changed my mindset totally, I have not visited a petrol station in 2 months - my other car is sitting idle ( Kia Sorento ) apart from longer trips or when I need to take the family + some others - Kia is a 7 seater, EV a 4 seater.
    But most of all, it is saving me heaps of money, and is *not* using any fossil fuels - I have solar panels, tied to the grid.
    Anyone that claims EVs will increase fossil fuel use has not been doing their research - EVs are far more efficient than ICE ( internal combustion engine ) cars, even ignoring the amount of energy wasted drilling, refining, transporting and burning petrol or diesel.
    Even if it were to use coal fired power exclusively , an EV is better from an emissions perspective.
    I'm not just talking from a theoretical perspective, I own one and it is not costing me a tenth of what an ICE would. Also from a maintenance perspective - far less moving parts, no burning, so no sludge/oil by products or things to gunge up the engine, even the brake pads do not get changed as much, because the car has regenerative braking ( "fuel gauge" goes UP when going downhill... )
    I wish I could take a few people for a drive, to experience it, but you'll have to be satisfied with me sharing my experience which has been nothing less than mindblowing.